On Purpose #3: Authenticity in Marketing [Podcast]

On Purpose #3: Authenticity in Marketing [Podcast]

On Purpose
On Purpose
On Purpose #3: Authenticity in Marketing [Podcast]


The Kenekt Digital team discusses authenticity and how it plays out in marketing.




Greg: Hello, I’m Greg, and we are basically going to be doing a conversation series where we’re discussing different topics around purpose, authenticity, values, things like that, we are Kenekt Digital. We’re a marketing agency, and we focus on working with organizations that have a deeper sense of purpose. And I think the impulse for these conversations is because from doing that, a lot of tensions come up. So it’s interesting to explore those tensions through conversation. And I think we’re going to begin this series with discussing. It’s kind of like an exploration of our values. So one that’s come up is authenticity. So we’re going to begin with that. So beginning with what is what’s how authenticity comes into play in marketing and in business in general, how do we understand authenticity and everything that goes along with that? So, yeah, we’re just gonna have a conversation and explore it. It’s kind of like a yeah. Like I don’t know what our values are. I don’t know if you guys know it, but I want to kind of find out through talking. So that’s kind of the idea. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m with Cristina and Sergio today, so maybe you guys could tell me a little bit about yourselves.



Cristina: Very nice. I’ll take the reins. My name is Christina and I work with Kenekt Digital and I’m doing the social media, but I primarily focus on brand identity and figuring out the core values of a company and really using that to tell the human story on social media with companies that we work with. And yeah, I love it. And and it’s really interesting to be able to get to the the core beliefs, not what you sell, but how why you started the company in the first place and not always really fascinates me. So that’s me, Sergio.



Sergio: Yeah, well, for the third time, this is Sergio, the expert of the agency, and yeah, I also I also have to say that I find it really interesting, the fact that we can sit together and try to explore some ideas that you normally don’t hear about from anybody else, sometimes not even from other companies like our clients or or even our competitors. And I think that it’s very important to to discover what are the core values of the organization and how you connect with the world. And so I think this conversation will help us figure out many things that will ultimately make us I would I would think, better overall in many different aspects of the business as people us as a team. And so, yeah, I’m really happy to be part of this. Yeah, so back to Greg.



Greg: Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think, yeah, it’s it’s I think it’s only through this kind of exploration that we actually can. Yeah. Understand it better and and work with it. Yeah. So it’s cool. So I think we can just go straight into the topic. So it’s around authenticity and marketing. So I think just to kick off the conversation. Well let’s start with. Is our authenticity and marketing compatible? And if so, how do we reconcile those two? So that’s coming off the back of basically that. There’s something to do with selling and marketing that involves, I don’t know, presenting yourself a certain way or and also that you’re kind of geared towards the you need you you’re trying to sell something. So that’s your that’s your, like, sort of prime concern. But then how do you also take care of being authentic at the same time? So, yeah.



Cristina: Yeah, I don’t know that that’s a really interesting topic because I feel like it’s changed over the years. I think at one point and I am just as guilty as anybody else of thinking this even about myself, was that marketing is like a dirty word. You know, it’s you think that when you think of like a marketer or advertiser , you don’t think of a story teller, you think of a used car salesman, you think of a door to door vacuum salesman. You think of like cutco knives, really predatory people coming, corrupting your lives, telling you half truths and lies about a product, about its benefits and overselling what it is, you know, or selling overpriced goods. And, you know, and I think. I think because of the Internet now. Marketing and authenticity have to be one in the same because you can’t lie about a product anymore. I mean, you can, but you’re going to be found out really fast, you know, because social media, because Internet you used to before the Internet, you used to have to rely on the guy on the phone or the guy at your door to describe this vacuum does everything. It’ll clean up stains, it’ll clean your couch. Like this thing is amazing. And you just kind of took him at his word or you didn’t. And that was there was no other way to find out about the product. But now that you have the Internet and there’s sites and there’s blogs and there’s, you know, Facebook, Twitter, everybody is using the product or whatever, whatever it is that they bought, they’re going to give you their opinion about it on social media. And if you’re lying to your clients or your customers, they’re going to know. They’re going to find out eventually. You can lie for a little bit, but for only so long. So I think you have to be authentic in marketing. I really do think that at this point you can’t mislead people anymore.



Greg: That’s yeah, that’s interesting. Do you have any thoughts about is that a kind of a recent development? Is that something that’s just happened since the advent of the Internet? And is it something about the Internet itself? Is it that? Is it social media now is used so widely so people can communicate more openly and review things? Is it like the fact that good reviews systems are set up?



Cristina: Yeah, I think so. I think it’s the social aspect of buying and selling and marketing. Now people are automatically giving their reviews about stuff. And I also think that it’s really obvious I’m going to throw not a company under the bus, but I’m going to throw a company a marketing strategy under the bus. Yeah, that’s a lot of like multilevel marketing and the companies, these shampooer companies, these essential oil companies that rely on like social selling. And I think that that I’ve noticed with people that. Sort of shield these products, you can tell when they’re lying about it, like, for example, like there’s a certain company that sells like hair products, shampoos, hair oils, all that kind of stuff and and and a lot that the like. And people are called out on it, over it, over Twitter, over Instagram. But it’s these girls that will say, oh, the shampoo made my hair amazing. Look at the shine. But it’s really obvious that they’ve like styled their hair, they look great and dead or curled it and they’ve put a whole bunch of nine products in it. And it’s like the it’s like, yeah, when I go to a salon and they do my hair, my hair looks amazing too. But it’s not because of the products, it’s because of the stylist did some stuff to my hair magic, you know. And to say that a shampoo did that to your hair is disingenuous and that’s and then they get called out over social media over it because yeah, it is when your social selling, you have a large audience, but it’s also a large audience that can see right through your bullshit if you’re if you’re lying to people. Yeah.



Greg: And it’s yeah. It’s that’s that’s a really good point. And yeah. Maybe search of also something to say on this as well. But I just wanted to add in because this you mentioned about hair products and I think this happens particularly in like health and wellness. And you also mentioned bullshit. And I think there’s sort of there’s like this distinction between lying where I think is like a guy that wrote this book called like on bullshit, where he, like, distinguish between lying, which is like where you know, that it’s not the case. But you that then you say that, you say the opposite, where’s bullshitting is like you don’t it’s not like you even really care necessarily about the truth. You’re just you’re just saying stuff to get towards your end. And I think yeah, I think a lot is so whereas I think if you I, I have the feeling that if you’re lying you will get found out really quickly. But I also have the sense that on the Internet, especially at the moment, there’s just there’s a ton of bullshit. So where it’s like it’s not necessarily it’s not necessarily lies, but it’s sort of like bending, bending the truth here and there.
And I think where I feel tension personally is that it’s kind of a I guess one one example is a bit more. Yeah, it’s been more subtle, but it’s like if you create if you’re creating a sealed copy, then you are optimizing for certain keywords and you’re trying to get in certain you’re basically trying to rank the page for certain things and that’s your prime motivation. And then you might sort of subtly throw, like, truth out of the window in order to get it to rank. And I just I’m thinking of like I had like early on, I worked for this agave company and like, they were just like, I don’t think it’s good for you, but they would like really emphasize the like low, like low, like sucrose content or whatever, low glucose. And it’s like high fructose. And they try and like emphasize how fructose is good for you and stuff, but it’s not clear whether it’s good for your bad. But they would just promote that. Right, and I would write that and promote it. So it’s sort of like it’s bullshit, but. You need it in order to optimize the page.



Sergio: But I think one of the things that we’re discussing now is just one aspect maybe of the entire of the authenticity, which is to be truthful and trustworthy, is just maybe one one aspect of others that I don’t know how many. But we can yeah, we can really see how sometimes you can use those well or the tools that the Internet has right now to manipulate the perception of people so that they think that you are trustworthy. And and that’s that’s maybe a problem that it’s in the hands of. Well, companies or agencies that do the work to to maybe stop that from happening, and I think just like Christina said, is maybe in the short term, but always in the long run, those things will never thrive. And I think there is no point. And in doing things like that. But I wanted to I wanted to maybe Segway a little bit and go into the other aspects of authenticity, which is can you be original? Can you still be in a world that’s always evolving, where people sometimes don’t even know what they’re, what they need and what they’re looking for? How do you how do you show your uniqueness about your brand and your products to the people out there? And how do you best use those those tools to to maybe be to have more exposure to be seen by the people who are like minded? And how do you connect those two things? I think the big part of authenticity is allowing the brand or allowing your business to shine on its own with its own light and be seen by the people who you want to be seen.



Greg: That’s yeah, that’s a really good point, we were initially talking about the sort of truth side to authenticity. But there’s also this sort of like showing who you are or is showing your the most. Yeah, unique parts of yourself, something like that, um, yeah, do you have do you have any thoughts on how you do that?



Sergio: Yeah, I think based on experience, sometimes when are well, there are many new businesses and now, especially during these times of coronavirus, there will be new services, a lot of new services, maybe even new products that will supply people or will try to serve people under the new conditions. And so you will see a lot of novel, a lot of new stuff that it represents a challenge to to the two agencies to to even market to put out there and to be seen. And I think because of the, you know, how can you be authentic or original and still be found by people even if they don’t know what you’re offering or they don’t understand. And so how do you reconcile those things? I think that that’s going to be the main challenge for the next I would say even for the future. You communicate those things. How do you structure an idea or a product or service in a way that allows people to understand it, find it, explore it? Yeah. I’ve been thinking a lot about that. And I think it’s one of the challenges that everyone will face.



Greg: Interesting, and so you mentioned that there’s like new types of product or service, different types that would need to be marketed. Do you have any examples like general ideas of what they are?



Sergio: I’m thinking about. Something specific. No, nothing comes to mind right now, but I know that because of the current conditions, there will be. Yeah, new possibly. Quite possibly new services. Yeah. You know, for example, the delivery for groceries will start to maybe it’s taking off now. Yeah. People are starting to use more of those services. Yeah. Things of this nature that only emerge when new needs. Yeah. When you have, when you’re facing different conditions, different circumstances, then businesses will start to provide different services, new services that maybe you’re not aware of.



Greg: Yeah,. That’s a good point. Like it’s like the such a fast changing world that and there’s so many new things that like the types of company that that pop up now are so varied. There’s there’s that. Yeah. There’s that example of like of Yeah. Sort of delivery grocery stuff taking off especially in Corona, but like whereas previously a lot of services were goods focused. Now you have also tons of stuff which is more focused on like learning and on health, like mental health, like, like tons of like coaching stuff which is like it’s not like a physical thing. It’s like a mental thing, which is also different to market.



Cristina: I’ve noticed that, like, companies that are already well established are also coming up with services that are geared towards a large group of people working from home. Like I noticed. Just funny, you should ask for an example, because I, I was sending someone and I use like an online calendar app to send off to people to make appointments and they have a feature now that I hadn’t noticed before. Maybe it was there, but it was like right at the bottom or like now it’s a very prominent feature where you can send a link to schedule an appointment with you for one person, but for multiple people. And I was thinking like, OK, this is companies that are now all working from home, but you still have to have meetings with, like, you know, five people, 20 people, a whole team. You know, you have to schedule for multiple people or like that are like trying to schedule with a whole bunch of students and a certain time to meet for everybody. Oh, wow. That’s I hadn’t noticed that before. And maybe also maybe it’s always been a feature, but I haven’t noticed it. And now I’m picking up on on how companies are putting prominent features that are more like, you know, for from people working from home for mental health, for learning how to stay motivated when you’re when you’re working from home or working from a laptop, you know. And so, yeah, I’ve really picked up on that now. Maybe I’m looking for it. Or maybe the companies are just now starting to come out with it. But yeah, it’s interesting.



Greg: No, I’m sure they are. Yeah. I haven’t yet. I haven’t noticed too much myself, but that solution to like multiple meetings, scheduling that, it’s just and that’s so, that’s so, so useful. So and I like to try and schedule for multiple people but.



Cristina: Yeah exactly. It’s annoying to send a link to multiple people, you know, might as well just send the same link to like fifty people. So. Yeah.



Greg: So if so if you know, if one of these companies they need to get themselves out there. Yeah. Let’s say it’s like the grocery delivery, grocery delivery type of thing. It’s like a like a health box or something like that. What, how would they do that authentically and how could they do that. Not authentically.



Sergio: I think when you say you’re not authentically is, sometimes it’s a question of how much do you have to sacrifice of your own the way that you do things in your own business so that you look more like the ones, you know, like your competition that already has something to offer to a specific audience. And so you try to be more like them. I think, yeah. You then sacrifice a little bit of who you are and what you do and what you do. And I think that’s what we’re trying to do this in this conversation. You know, how do you reconcile like can you stay true to the to your own values and vision and why you do things without having to go to the other to deviate too much from those core values to start to sell things. Can marketing actually help those businesses to not do that and rather be unique and authentic? And I think the answer is yes, you can you can actually do that. The world is very complex. And now it’s it’s you don’t see as many borders as there were like 20, 30 years ago. You can actually produce so many different solutions to different problems. And actually, as we move forward in time, we see that level of complexity in the in business is just increasing, which creates opportunity to develop new tools and new products. And you will always have an audience. You will always have people that think the same way that maybe you have seen the same problem and they need your solution. And so I think the challenge is how we find the way to get those people and put them to also find more easily the business and the solutions. I think that’s the challenge.



Greg: Yeah, that’s a yeah. That’s an interesting one that you raise them around. Authenticity is sort of like this. Kind of how much do you emulate or how much you copycat another company or companies that do it well already in order to get success versus sticking to your sort of your unique self, something like that? That’s an interesting one, because I think that’s sort of like that matches to this idea of like. Like fitting in versus belonging and then fitting in is like which I actually to like polar opposites and fitting in is basically changing yourself to fit into to a group of people. And belonging is being yourself, like authentically, and then finding people that fit that. And then there’s also. Yeah, because it’s interesting because that really that tension comes up as well for me because like we had this whole the whole CSI thing, we made a tool and then like we started to really base it on like how like companies normally brand themselves for that type of service. And it was like really corporate. And like our website was like super corporate. And like I was like, OK, this is all we want we need to do. But I was very sad. I was like really like so sad, like to like be under that banner until a point where we just like we had to talk with each other and we’re like, I was like, I don’t think I can do this. I don’t think I can be under this banner. And then we had a great meeting and we decided to completely overhaul it, become astronauts. And that was way better.



Cristina: Yeah, I think it’s it can be really. You mentioned like you you have a product, you know, it’s good. And then you have to figure out how you want to come across to other people. And while staying true to yourself. And it’s a really difficult balance to strike. I think, you know, I struggled with that when I was first starting out my entrepreneur career, as it were. You know, I, I, I know how I represent myself. And then I also know how I might come across to other people that are trying to give me large amounts of money to manage their social media, how they come across to the world. That’s a big job. And I need to come across as trustworthy. I need to come across as professional. I need to come across as being an expert in what I do. And how do I you know, I mean, sometimes my appearance may or may not strike that in people like, you know, sometimes I dye my hair blue and I have a nose piercing and, you know, and you just you never know how you come across to people until you find that balance of, like, not trying too hard to be something that you’re not. And but still. But still. Letting people know that, like, yeah, I know what I’m talking about, I know what I’m doing. You can trust me.



Greg: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.



Cristina: It’s really hard, it’s hard, it’s hard to live with it. And yeah, I think for sure,



Greg: I think yes, as you mentioned, like especially is the first as you just come into the field, it’s like I feel like there’s got to be a time delay because you can just just come into the field and then like. And then be fully, wholly, uniquely yourself, right? You have to fit in because you just don’t know the rules of the game. And yeah, that’s the sense I had.



Cristina: Yeah, yeah. It’s fun. It’s funny because you do. And then you have like an I, I don’t know if you, Sergio or you, Greg, have dealt with this, but you have like an identity crisis because, you know, you come in like guns blazing, like I’m awesome. You know, when you’re like any time you’re like your authentic self and you’re like, this is how I want to come across. This is my brand. And then and then people won’t hire you, people won’t hire you, people won’t hire you or may not have anything to do with how you present yourself. But just like just where they’re at in their company at the time and you just have bad luck. And so you’re fit. You try to fit the mold of other brands that are doing and I know I did this, I would like go on other people’s websites that were doing the exact same thing that I was doing, all these other social media marketers, all these big time agencies. And I’d be like, OK, I’m going to design my website exactly like how they have theirs. And I’m going to like use their content as inspiration for my content. And I might even adopt a certain look. And then I was thinking, well. I hate this.



Greg: Yeah, yeah,



Sergio: Yeah, I think we’re talking about the two extremes of the entire spectrum, so you can either be extremely creative and have something that’s very, very unique and no one knows about it and then no one will ever understand it. And then that’ll cause a problem then, because people don’t understand what you can do with your solution or what you’re offering, then they won’t buy it.



Cristina: Right.



Sergio: Or you look so much like the others that, yeah, maybe there are some benefits to it, but then you start to sacrifice your inner needs to still be somewhat. Yeah. Original. Right. Yes. I think we all, we all do things wanting to, to, to do. We want to do things our own way and experience the world through it use and, and then if you go too much to the other side then you’re just becoming a copycat. So it’s finding, I think, the perfect balance between those two and try to fit in the world without sacrificing too much of who you are and not my serve. Those you know, those needs of sailing, being productive and all those things, but also at the same time feeling like you’re true to yourself.



Greg: Yeah, absolutely.



Sergio: And I think, you know, one of the things that happened to Kenekt was that we started to find or be found by brands or businesses that cared more about purpose when we stated that we care about purpose. And I think that we connect so well with them every time that we speak to them in a meeting or even from the very first sales meeting, we kind of have that feeling whether this thing is going to work or not. And it’s because we are our common grounds is always in the purpose. And I think yeah, I think we’ve experienced that somehow. Like, yes, of course, we’re still trying to market our own services as a digital marketing agency, the very traditional way, the way it works. But we offer it in a very unique way. Yes. At least my opinion. I don’t know what you know.



Greg: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think when we started, it was like when we started actually putting that messaging out there, then attracted certain types of company to us, and then we could start to speak and engage on that level. And then it start to create this loop of like this feedback loop of like, OK, there’s people that that like this way of talking, way of thinking. And then we can do more of it. And then, yeah, I totally agree. And it’s great that we found that. But before that, to get to that stage, it was it took a very long time because and this is what Christina was touching on as well, that if you that you come into this into a certain environment. And I think in marketing and in general, it tends to be a quite the mindset tends to be quite results-focused or. Yeah, like profit-focused. So you can come in and, you know, you don’t have the confidence yet. So if you bring up these ideas, then people think you’re stupid or people think you’re like, just like your head is in the clouds, like it’s like totally your ass. Like I had like we had, you know, mentoring calls with like salespeople and stuff like that and like sort of trying to voice these things. And they just they would just be like. That’s not how the world works, young boy. But, yeah, but then it was sort of like after just a couple of things in the website, then it started to get people coming for it. And then little by little, we grew in confidence, I think, in this and speaking about this.



Sergio: And that’s the benefits also. You go ahead.



Cristina: No, no, no, I was going to say well, just real quickly, I was going to say that I think I think that’s why. And that’s that’s it. Like and that’s really the solution to authenticity in marketing. You know, if you find that common ground and it’s something that is other you know, of course, money marketing is about money. Right. Like most people think, you know, then that’s why you run into a lot of these sales coaches and business coaches and they’re just like, you know, I mean, how growth in numbers and percentages intended and done. And that’s what it’s really all about. But when you find somebody that believes in something more than that and something that with a deeper purpose, then you feel comfortable promoting their products because they’re coming from a place of wanting to help people, you know, and that’s the really authentic part of that marketing.



Greg: Mm hmm.



Cristina: Go ahead, Sergio.



Sergio: Yeah, no, I the one thing that I wanted to mention is that having those things clear can definitely affect the way that people outside of your organization know you and the perception that they have about who you are as a business. But it’s also it also affects the people working within that organization. So I think that the team has I think that many things changed for the internal team and how we all work and how we organize ourselves and the way that we try to, you know, have our own processes. Everything is around. That idea is surrounding that idea. and I like as many different elements. It’s yeah,



Greg: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think and I think when we started to communicate about it internally, then things, that’s when things started to click as well. I remember one brunch we had where it was like because we’d loosely talked about purpose and stuff before and then, and then surgery brought up this, this talk about the what, the how, and why. And I think for some reason that just made it we had like a language to talk about it and then we were all like the Y and then and then that became much more internalized and something that we used more with clients as well, which is quite nice.



Cristina: I remember that brunch as well. And it was funny because as soon as we all heard the section on the wall, I blamed everything in our company just like took off from that point. Like, you’re like, OK, we need a brand tone of voice dork with this Y and then like emails with why and why are we doing what we’re doing. Not the what but the Y like. Yeah that became quite the and still is the obsession in our company. It’s, it’s not what you’re selling or even why you started. You’re like a lot of people. Why did you start your company. Well I wanted to sell this thing. So you started a company to sell the thing. Yeah, sure. Yeah, of course. Like that. That’s what a business is. You’re selling something. Yeah.



Sergio: Y yeah. Yeah.


Cristina: You really got to pull it out of people you know. Yeah



Greg: It’s interesting. I like I think, I think, I think in a lot of cases there is, there is a deeper way but it’s almost like people need permission to actually talk about it. So I remember when you first sent me that questionnaire about for us, like what’s the why behind what we do in like. I wrote tons of stuff that I just never talk about with people. I was like, oh, my God, that’s like I didn’t know that was in there. And I think I think sometimes when you talk. To people, and you ask them, why are you doing something, they give the answer that they think they’re supposed to give. So like this is what normal people normally say in business. So I’ll talk about numbers and stuff like that. But then if you prompt more than you can find in a lot of cases, this deeper sense of. Yeah, deeper sense of why.



Cristina: Yeah. And I think I think when you when you give your deeper sense of why we have this, like especially in business owners, I think they’re kind of closed off from their like their deep purpose of why, you know, like because you ask someone and they say, like if they give their real reason, you think they’re going to think you’re full of shit, you know, like, oh, I do this because I want to change the world. And I know people would say, OK, well, what are you 17 for? Or Miss Universe like



Sergio: Universe



Cristina: Answer. You just want world peace. And I just want to like, you know, like change the world. Like you say that initially or like a lot. I think a lot of people think that if they say that kind of stuff, that higher purpose, that really like lofty goal, this, you know, this thing that they’re people are going to laugh or people are going. Oh, really?



Greg: Yeah. And so a lot of people will laugh. That’s part of it.


Cristina: Or they’ll go, OK, but really you want to you really started this because, you know, the money’s good and it’s like, no, why does it have to be that way? Sure. If the money’s good, like money obviously can buy freedom and happiness. And I do think money can buy happiness. But, you know, in a certain regard, if it can buy you freedom, then to make choices and to to have power to to make your own decisions and do what you want, that yeah, that is happiness, of course. And money can provide that. But I think a lot of people do have an idealized sort of version of why they started the business. No one just looks at themselves as like, well, I just want to make money like no one looks at themselves that way. Maybe a few people, maybe Trump, maybe a couple of people. But like, you know, because they hold that as their purpose is to look powerful, to look rich, to look, you know. Yeah. To run in elite circles. Maybe some people do want to do maybe that is the main purpose. But I don’t I don’t believe most people are like that. I think most people have a genuine and altruistic reason for starting their company. And. Yeah, but they’re embarrassed to say,



Greg: Yeah. What do you what do you think so.



Sergio: Yeah, I guess I don’t know, I agree, of course, I just I’m lost within the idea of how hold these things that we’re discussing can also affect. You know, we’ve been speaking about the businesses, the agency, but it’s so rooted in the very nature of the individual. Like we all will experience all these type of challenges and how we want to fit in the world and how we want to show ourselves as a true, original or authentic individuals. And I think it’s it’s a good exercise to try to find your place in the world and how. Well, you can be marketing, it can be anything how those things can get those ideas can guide you to a destination that you have set for yourself. It’s a good way to discover those things. In the middle of conversations like this, even though we’re discussing business and marketing, it can still be related to all the very important things of the day.



Greg: Yeah, yeah. You can hold both of them. Doesn’t have to be either, you know, or. Yeah. I have to add this, so this is something that comes up now because we’re working with companies with a deeper sense of purpose so that where the why can be quite important for them and that means that they are looking for when they do present themselves online, they are looking to produce something authentic. But then we come in and then we do their marketing for them. So it’s like we become a voice for them. And then how do how can how can we as an outsider coming in? Voice their voice authentically, I think that’s some that’s kind of a problem that we’re working on at the moment. Yeah.



Sergio: Yeah, I think we’ve been doing this for almost all of our clients, we’re do this at the moment, we’re really the we’re helping them figure it out because we’re not trying to speak on their behalf. We’re just trying to protect their voices. But they’re liking this very important part of the message because they maybe only focus on what the product is to the highest level of the resolution that they can conceive. But there’s still more you know, more. It’s a little it’s also a low resolution idea. You only give a certain amount of information to the people about what you do, what you offer. But it lacks the flesh. You know, it lacks the why is it exactly that you do this, to begin with? And the moment the that we help them figure out all those missing parts of the message, the message becomes so much stronger and then suddenly we start to see the results come true. And I’ve I’ve seen that happen over the past few months.



Greg: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.



Cristina: Yeah. I think we we talked earlier about, you know, wanting to put your best foot forward and wanting to present yourself a certain way how you see yourself. But the reality is, is different for other people, I think. And your clients are going to see you a certain way. Your friends, your family, your partner sees you a certain way. And it’s probably not how you see yourself. Maybe it’s closely aligned, but not exactly how you want yourself to be seen. And so I think it as Sergio was saying, you know, it’s really important for a company to there’s so many different facets. You know, there is the product, but then there is the story behind it. And there is the benefit that the client story, how the clients see your company from the eyes of what it was able to do with in their life. And, you know, and I think that that’s a really important story to tell, is to look at it from all angles. And I think it’s a hard job. But what we’re aiming to do, what we’re trying to do, hopefully what we’re doing currently is to pull those stories out and look at all the facets of what a product is doing, why it is helping a community or people, group of people or an industry or whatever. And yeah, once you really tell that story, I think it becomes yeah, the greater purpose in their company becomes a lot more apparent, not just from their perspective as the CEO, but also from the client’s perspective, from potential customers perspectives.



Greg: Yeah, yeah. That’s a that’s a really good one actually, Christine. It’s that with this ties. And I think what we’re speaking about earlier about the different types of products like that, I think you can get caught up on like you have a particular idea of what your product is in a company and. You and I think this relates to the what how why thing, right, so then a lot of people just really focus on this what this what the product is and then like what it does maybe. And then I guess part of it and part of some of what we’ve been doing is to almost broaden that circle out to the how and the why. So then the view of what a product is actually is. It’s much bigger, right? Because it’s the it’s the kind of the communities it impacts. It’s the the impact it has on the world. It’s how the people understand it. It’s like this kind of broadening of the story. Right.



Cristina: Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.



Sergio: I think the message has so many different components and that’s something that sometimes businesses forget about. They focus too much. And yeah, I sell this product, but it’s also the impact of the house. And so. Also figuring those things out, sometimes it can be a very similar product to your competitors producing the way that you implemented the results that it gets, that you for their end user, gets out of the product, may differ vastly from the competitors. And then there is something useful about it. There was something worth mentioning and communicating to the to the audiences that will be always the key to showing your own authenticity. So. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.



Cristina: Yeah. And, you know, and then there’s like I was thinking about a couple of past clients that I’ve had that they have they have a service like I’ll just use an example. A summer space camp for kids and of course, like when someone’s looking to buy into this summer camp, kids are excited about it. Parents are excited about it, but for totally different reasons. And you as a marketer, it’s really it’s not even it becomes less about advertising and more about telling the story of what these different clients see in this product. Like parents are like, great, cool. I can send my kid away for a week. I have a week of, you know, having the house to myself and getting to have date nights. And I’m not just sending them to like a horse riding camp or whatever, like they’re going to learn. It’s like a science camp. They’re going to be well prepared for next year. Long as



Sergio: Your kid off to space for a week



Cristina: Rocket launch, you’re going to the moon by child you won’t miss. You know, I love children, but like so you have the OK, there’s the learning aspect. There’s the free time aspect. But also, like your child is going to make friends, they’re going to be more confident. They’re going to be used to learning in an environment, even if it’s over the summer, they’re going to be better prepared for school. There’s so many things, you know, not just. And so, yeah, you kind of have to not only appeal to the parents, but you also have to appeal to the kids because the kids are going to try and ask for whatever they’re going to ask their parents for. So there’s like multiple layers of who you have to really talk to on that level and understand their problem and understand why they’re why they may be interested in this in the first place, what kind of problems it solves. And it’s.



Greg: Yeah, yeah, that’s true. Yeah.



Sergio: I think the advantage of the storytelling is that you can add so many different messages within just one story that it just conveys a lot of messages, different information, that sometimes there’s no point in doing that. Like objectively, the story gives you the advantage of showing all the different aspects and all the different the implications of that one service product. What you’re offering, it can just take everything together into one idea, one story, and then that’s that’s sometimes easier to to digest. And I think that’s also why we have now so many tools that allow people who enable people to share stories more than anything else.



Greg: Yeah, yeah. That’s that’s a good point actually. Yeah. Like you have this, the stories and like your, like your Facebook and Instagram feeds and.

Sergio: Yeah. And I think maybe we’re coming from that world where we’re being authentic was, was a threat to the progress of the business to a point where you need to be authentic, to be able to compete and to survive. Because if you were to. Too similar to too much of a copycat, then it’s just not sustainable, I think.



Greg: Yeah, I also get the sense that like like that at the moment there is just so much bullshit and that people are actually is like this like bullshit fatigue almost. And it’s just like people are just tired of it. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. You just kind of play that card anymore.



Cristina: Yeah, absolutely. I yeah I don’t, I’m trying not to use company names of things just in case. I don’t want, I don’t want like anyone coming after us but Walmart. I know. Right.



Sergio: Wal-mart’s our friends, our podcast and we’re getting sued.



Cristina: But speaking of authenticity in and representing yourself in it. So I don’t really watch a whole lot of YouTube, but I there’s a couple of YouTube views that I really like. And sometimes I only learn about them because they’re caught up in, like, some sort of weird drama or whatever. But I, I think there are a lot of YouTubers that started out really authentic. They and that’s why they have such a huge platform, is they have a quirky personality or they’re funny or they just genuinely sit down in front of a camera and review products that they like, not because they’re an influencer, yet they become an influencer by genuinely reviewing products that they like. And then because of their influence or status, they get, you know, sponsorships by products and then they have to talk about and it’s like this weird cycle of like authenticity and authenticity and like and I notice it with online. So like even though going back to the beginning of the podcast, when I said, oh, I think authenticity and the Internet have kind of like changed how marketing does how we do our business. But I also think that there’s a weird cycle of it, too, you know, like you and I hate influencer marketing for the record. But because of this, because we’ll know eventually when you have a platform big enough for being authentic and being truthful and being genuine, when you’re using a service and you’re like, I just I love this stuff, whether it’s who knows whether it’s food, whether it’s whatever, like people trust you and then you get enough platform to where, you know, you’re paid to say that you like something.



Greg: Yeah. That’s yeah. That’s such a good point. I think that’s like I think that highlights this, this, this feeling of tension that I get in this field because like and you also see that with podcasts like for me it’s the worst. Like you listen to a podcast and it’s just everything’s laid bare and like they’re just having a normal conversation. But then once you reach a certain point, you’ve got like they have to advertise products before the show. And then it’s just, oh, man, it’s sometimes it’s like the saddest thing to hear when it’s the case of, like, someone that was like truly like like no bullshot authentic. And then they have to do like a five minute, like, review of a product which they clearly don’t care about. It’s just.



Cristina: Oh yeah. Yeah. And it’s it’s really it is very frustrating to hear that. Yeah. Because, because you do you like your it takes you out of that conversation like and I think that’s why people like podcasts so much or you tubers or because it feels like you’re sitting down with your favorite group of friends and you’re talking about stuff or you’re listening to their opinions and you really respect them a lot and you’re talking talking at will. At no point in a friend conversation are we going to be like and now here’s a message from our sponsors or Tea Party or whatever that like podcast or maybe that’s next. I know.



Greg: And insane guerilla marketing, like mass guerrilla marketing, like everyone’s marketing of



Sergio: Products in their everyday life.



Cristina: So I know social selling. I hear this a lot too. Or it’s like, oh, you’re just giving a review, a product that you like. I mean, you would do the same thing if you saw a movie that you really liked and you give it to friends. But there’s a difference. There really is a difference. And you can always tell that there’s that difference when you’re listening. And yeah, it does kind of take you out of, oh, I’m just listening to my favorite people in my living room talk on a podcast to oh fuck. They’re bought. They’re bought and paid for. Oh yeah.



Greg: It’s yeah. It’s a tricky one because. Yeah I guess. Yeah. Like you don’t want people to sell out, but then you can get around the fact that the money makes things, makes things happen, makes the world go around, and then it’s just this tension between the two, right?



Sergio: Yeah.



Cristina: Yeah, and that’s that’s the thing, and that’s why. It’s just like with influencer marketing and just any advertising in general, like you eventually do have to just do it. I mean, yeah, for sure, like being authentic and stuff like that, that will get you your platform and people will see that and be invited into that world because you are just you’re weird, you’re quirky, you’re you have a personality. People really like to hear you talk about stuff because you’re so relatable. But eventually you do have to in order to sustain yourself and your lifestyle or pay your rent, buy food, you have to eventually end up advertising in some way or taking money or taking sponsorships or whatever. And. Yeah, I mean.



Greg: Here. Tricky one.



Sergio: I don’t think that those things served necessarily there’s ways of managing those things so that you still you’re still being a trustworthy person or business, you can still have sponsorship that boosts your brand and gives you more money to function. But it’s a question of, I would say, values. And and if you you’re being surrounded or sponsored by other businesses or people with the same good intentions that you have. And it just comes down to to the specifics, if you’re working with the brand that is not trustworthy to just as a sponsor, then it’s a risk that you are taking, because if the market knows that the one the fewer promote the brand you’re promoting and your own platform isn’t trustworthy, then your trustworthiness will be affected and people will not come back for more.



Greg: That’s true.



Sergio: So, yeah, it’s all about values. It’s about. Yeah, yeah. It’s not that marketing can not be trustworthy. Yeah. It’s just it’s the people at multiband because marketing is just a tool that’s through the collection of techniques. And so it comes on to the individuals and the core values of a business more than the marketing. Marketing can be used for good things.



Greg: But that’s I



Sergio: Think that’s where we should bring the attention to.



Greg: Yeah, that’s true. That’s absolutely true.



Sergio: El. So you can definitely be authentic and sell and make a profit.



Greg: I think so we’ve been talking for an hour, I’m thinking maybe that’s a good place to to stop. You guys have something more you want to discuss?



Sergio: No, I think we’ve wrestled with the idea and we came to I don’t know if we really came to the bottom of the whole topic, but



Greg: We solved it.



Sergio: But some good questions and we’ve solved some good questions now.



Greg: Yeah, I agree. I really enjoyed it. I think you just run and it’s.



Cristina: Yeah, yeah. This is really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.



Greg: I’m looking forward to editing this and to hear my voice back, but you know.



Cristina: Yeah. No kidding. Hi. Good luck. Well I. Yeah, what



Greg: Do we do want to say any closing statements or shall I didn’t think about how to wrap this up. I have a good wrap up line



Cristina: Like, yeah, no, I didn’t either. It’s kind of one of those, like, weird. Yeah. Sort of awkward things where it’s like I got to go grocery shopping now, so I’ll catch you later. Yeah. The chat. All right. Oh no. My computer’s dying.



Sergio: Yes, exactly. Is getting to him so nice. All right.



Greg: Again, let’s end with a couple of finger guns. Catch you all on the flip side.



Sergio: All right. Flip and.

Greg is co-founder of Kenekt Digital and is interested in where business and social change intersect. He uses his background in Philosophy and International Development to develop new ways of marrying these two areas, and aims to build an organisation which is maximally responsible, maximally useful as a service, while at the same time fulfilling its function to bring wealth to its employees. He runs the company with his 2 best friends, who share his passions.